Talk:Johannespassion, BWV 245 (Johann Sebastian Bach)
- 1 [Instrumentation]
- 2 Numbering: conventional BWV or latest NBA?
- 3 Possible source for translation
- 4 Score errors
In 'General information' this is marked 'a cappella'. Bach's St John Passion is, of course, accompanied by full orchestra. It is misleading to describe this work as 'a cappella' just because no orchestral parts are provided in the CPDL contributions. (The individual files sometimes make it clear that there's a lot more than the chorus parts contributed.)
(I thought it might be an unaccompanied setting I had not heard of).
Marghek 08:27, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
- You are absolutely right! To my knowledge it’s CPDL’s policy to give the original voicing and instrumentation—and that’s not a cappella in this case. Don’t worry—there is no proven unaccompanied setting by JSB himself. I’ll add Bach’s orchestra setup (one should say: baroque orchestra for it’s not equal to modern ‘full’ orchestras) according to the NBA. By touching this, see another problem stated below. —Robert Urmann 00:53, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
Numbering: conventional BWV or latest NBA?
How to sort individual movements of Johannes-Passion? To stay up-to-date I’d suggest NBA numbering (with BWV sub-number parenthesized). As an example, I recently submitted the final chorale ‘Ach Herr, laß dein lieb Engelein’ which would read: 40 (68) [NBA# (BWV#)]. I didn’t want to mess up things so I kept existing BWV ordering. An advantage of sorting by NBA# would be to easily include the movements of Bach’s second edition (1725) indicated by supset roman numerals, e.g. 1II or 40II. —Robert Urmann 01:29, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
- We need both, but sure: putting NBA numbers at the front of the movement titles makes it easy to see them next to the consecutive numbers in the displayed contents. Not nearly as complicated as Messiah! I've added the beginning measure numbers of the NBA as well. Richard Mix 01:55, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
Possible source for translation
Check out http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Texts/BWV245-Eng3.htm and if that translator agrees to your request, you'll have a perfect serviceable translation to place on choralwiki!
(21d) Kreuzige, kreuzige (Chorus)
Bar 1, bass voice. In the edition Bärenreiter Urtext (BA 5037a), the last two notes are equal to the previous note (C), not an octave below.
(21f) Wir haben ein Gesetz (Chorus)
Bar 7, bass voice: Fourth note should be B(-flat), not C.
- Corrected PDF and MID file subsequently - Claude 12:09, 7 March 2011 (CST)
(23d) Weg, weg mit dem (Chorus)
Bar 22, bass voice: First note should be E-sharp, not E.
- Corrected PDF and MID files consequently. Claude 12:37, 7 March 2011 (CST)
(27b) Lasset uns den nicht zerteilen (Chorus)
According to the Bärenreiter Urtext edition (BA 5037a), there are many downward interval jumps of a seventh or of an octave at the end of the text losen (for example: bass d-d (octave) at the end of bar 4, tenor g-a (7th) at the end of bar 5, alto d-e (7th) at the end of bar 6, soprano a-b (7th) at the end of bar 7.) In the CPDL edition, these have been consistently replaced by a jump of a fifth down.
(32) Mein teurer Heiland, laß dich fragen (Aria con coro)
CPDL #20354: Bar 18 seems to have been messed up.
The lyrics are missing ”To-des-not”. The notes should be:
Soprano: augmented ¼ E, augmented ¼ D, augmented half C sharp.
Alto: augmented ¼ C sharp, augmented ¼ B, augmented half A sharp.
Tenor: ¼ G, 1/8 F sharp, augmented ¼ F sharp, augmented half F sharp.
Bass: augmented ¼ A sharp, augmented ¼ B, augmented half G.
- Thanks, Jes, for having spotted and reported the problem. I've tried to remedy. Claude (talk) 17:50, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
(39) Ruht wohl, ihr heiligen Gebeine (Chorus)
The initial upbeat should not be a separate 1/4 measure.
Bar 1. In the bass line of the accompaniment (piano score), the second note should be B-natural, not B-flat. Similarly, in bar 49.
Bar 4, 3rd beat. In the accompaniment, B-flat should be changed to B-natural. Similarly, in bar 52. (according to the edition Bärenreiter Urtext. BA 5037a)
Bar 69, bass voice. The third note should be B-flat, not C.
Bar 75. In the bass line of the accompaniment, the third note should be F-sharp, not F
--Rote 12:13, 6 March 2011 (CST)
- Corrected the five errors of this movement as mentioned above, in the PDF and MID files. Thanks for checking. Claude 12:35, 7 March 2011 (CST)