Talk:Magnificat, BWV 243 (Johann Sebastian Bach)

Score Errors

Error in Quia respexit: the music and text of soloist are missing in 18.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lux Aurumque (talk • contribs) on 00:03, 5 July 2008.

Errors in Magnificat: there are quite a few errors in this (I don't have the music with me so I can't be more specific, but it mostly seems to be in the alto part). Can I suggest addition of the IMSLP edition while this one is sorted out.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Francishemingway (talk • contribs) on 08:46, 28 November 2008 (UTC).

Unfortunately I have to agree with the preceding comments: I haven't checked the notes, but the underlay of all the parts seems to be completely wrong in numerous places. Users are recommended to visit http://imslp.org/wiki/Magnificat_in_D%2C_BWV_243_(Bach%2C_Johann_Sebastian) to find complete scans (full score and vocal) of this work. --DaveF 19:48, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Comparison with other score versions

This edition has been compared with the "New Novello Choral Edition" edited by Neil Jenkins, year 1999. The comparison is limited to choral parts (no solo parts) and to note pitches and durations; lyrics have not been compared. Any difference found has been then cross-checked with the Bach-Gesellschaft Ausgabe (BGA), the Peters edition of 1919, and the Peters/Eulenburg editions of 1924/25, all available at IMSLP and considered as reference editions. The following differences have been identified:

Magnificat

Soprano II, bar 55: the second note (A) is G# in all the reference editions.

Bass, bar 38: the last note (G#) is G natural in all the reference editions.

Bass, bar 50: the sixth note (C#) is E in all the reference editions.

Omnes generationes

Soprano I, bar 3: in the orchestral version the seventh and the eleventh note (A#) are A in all the reference editions. This difference is not present in the version with piano reduction.

Fecit potentiam

Soprano II, bar 16: the second note (D) is A in all the reference editions.

Alto, bar 18: the fourth, fifth and sixth note (all C) are a quaver, a dotted quaver, and a semiquaver, while they are a dotted quaver, a semiquaver, and a quaver in all the reference editions.

Alto, bar 20: the last note (G) is A in all the reference editions.

Suscepit Israel

No difference.

Sicut locutus

No difference.

Gloria Patri

Soprano I, bar 39: the first and the second note are not tied, while they are tied in all the reference editions (lyrics missing, too).

Alto, bar 3: the first note (G) is G# in all the reference editions.

Tenor, bar 14: the last note (F#) is E in all the reference editions.

Tenor, bar 39: the last note (B) is C(#) in all the reference editions.

Tenor, bar 41: the second note (E) is F(#) in all the reference editions.

Bass, bar 2: the seventh note (G) is G# in in all the reference editions.

Training aids available at Choralia are consistent with the reference editions. Comparison made by Max a.k.a. Choralia 08:45, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Current Status

Unfortunately, there are a number of errors in the foregoing discussion.

Number 1.

The first, and most serious error, is that the word "thanks" (or equivalent: e. g. merci, danke, gracias, grazie, etc.) is missing from previous comments on this page. Whenever somebody is gracious enough to create and upload a score for free distribution, this is the first word that should come to mind.

Number 2.

Second, nobody bothered to email the creator of the file (that would be me) to tell him about any putative errors. In the future, this would be a much better approach and would allow for much more rapid correction of whatever errors might be found from time to time.

Number 3.

With respect to the individual comments

unsigned comment by Lux Aurumque

The text is present and correct. Were you using an old copy?

unsigned comment by Francishemingway

This is the sort of comment that is not very helpful. You think that there must be a lot of errors in the score, but you don't know what they are? Yeah, right. That was useful. As of this writing, no residual errors have been found in the Alto part.

comment by DaveF

"I haven't checked the notes" but still the score "seems to be completely wrong" Yeah, right. It is really quite difficult to know whether errors exist, if you don't look for them.

Score comparison (by Max?)

Now this sort of tablulation is actually helpful. Thank you for your

effort in proofreading. The results of the comparison could have been

emailed to the creator of the files (Bach is dead so we can't

communicate with him, but I am not). If that had been done, it

appears that a great deal of time spent on comparing reference

editions could have been saved. This does not mean, however, that the

comment itself is without errors, both in English usage and with

respect to the music.

As of this point, I have corrected all errors that I have found or that have been called to my attention, and the current versions of the scores can be found at: http://jennings.freehostia.com/ (follow the links). Scores that are posted on the web (say at the CPDL) without my knowledge or consent are probably not current versions. If/when anybody finds any other errors not covered by the foregoing, please let me know (my email address is on my website). Finally, I did a little tabulation. I counted which of the putative errors were real, and which were not (e. g. correct score said to be incorrect, incorrect score said to be correct, etc., etc.). If the error rate in the score were the same as the error rate for the comments on this page, there would be approximately 88 errors in just soprano part of one short movement (No. 4. Omnes generationes). Perfect for a piano part, huh? Jennings 19:32, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Jennings, you may note that I never used the word "error" in my remarks. I only used the word "difference". "Error" may be subjective, as, to define an "error", you have to define what is wrong and what is right, but "wrong" or "right" may be rather subjective. "Difference" is objective: I just report that different sources show different notes. I regularly use automatic means to compare different editions, that pinpoint even one different note among thousands, but I have no music education at all, so I have no opinion about what is wrong and what is right. Therefore, in this page I wanted just to share with anybody else (including you) my observations, so that people (including you) may draw their own conclusions about what is wrong and what is right. If there were actually errors in your edition, I'm glad I contributed to pinpoint them. Thank you very much for your editions and for correcting them. I apologize if my English is not perfect, unfortunately I'm not mother tongue, and I can only somewhat manage half a dozen languages. Max a.k.a. Choralia 20:58, 5 August 2009 (UTC)