User talk:Tweedfour

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Missa Brevis

Hello Thurlow. Welcome to CPDL and thanks for your recent contributions. I have just merged the individual mass score pages (as is the convention for masses on CPDL) so they now all exist on 1 page, Missa Brevis (Thurlow Weed) and I've corrected the links on your composer page. If you wish to typeset your works at a later date, you may find a music notation software program to your liking on this page. Kind regards --Bobnotts talk 23:20, 4 February 2008 (PST)


Thank you, Robert. While I was able to figure out how to successfully post the works and remove the midi icon, I wasn't certain how to separate/combine things as you have so tidily done. I have written several ostinati which I'll put up in due time, and I'm sure a brief study of the wiki code as it is now, will guide the way for the third category.

Thank you also for the info about software. I've tried NotePad and Cakewalk in the past and have been very disappointed with them. I'll definitely look at some of the ones on your list.

I'm one of those composers who isn't as much interested in any royalties or other profits as I am having the music available for people to perform and enjoy -- that's why I wrote it in the first place. CPDL is a great medium for this.

Now hopefully this reply works.... wiki is an entirely new medium for this newbie -- thank goodness for the forums!

Tweedfour 09:23, 5 February 2008 (PST)

Your hymns

Hi Thurlow. I've just ordered the links to pages for hymns, hymn tunes and hymn settings on your composer page. I've also created new hymn tune pages for Gospel Feast and Old Lancaster. The established standard for hymns on CPDL is to have a hymn tune page for every hymn that is featured for cross -referencing though this doesn't always happen. Also, there currently isn't a way to automate the process. If you can get your head round creating new hymn tune pages when you add a hymn that would be great. If not, don't worry, someone will (hopefully!) come along and sort it out. --Bobnotts talk 08:57, 15 February 2008 (PST)

Hi, Robert. I was just about to upload the latest hymn tune, but read your message first. I'll have to peruse how you've re-configured things so I can enter the wiki correctly. And just when I've gotten the hang of it....! Tweedfour 09:15, 15 February 2008 (PST)

Robert, an addendum to the previous response. I just stuck the newest tune on to the page, and it wasn't difficult at all. I also found the page for the Metres. Thanks for your help! Tweedfour 09:47, 15 February 2008 (PST)

Hello again, Thurlow. Thanks for your latest hymn, Come, Ye Faithful, Raise the Strain (tune - Mount Pleasant) - just one thing - edition information should not be added to the hymn tune pages because that PDF and MIDI are of a "hymn setting" as we call it on CPDL, that is, a harmonised hymn tune. I have reverted those edits. Hymn tune pages should contain the tune only. See Angel Voices (Monk) for an example of a tune page with the melody added with LilyPond. The edition info already exists on a the hymn setting page, Mount Pleasant (Thurlow Weed). Across the whole of CPDL, edition info should only exist on one page (I can't think of an exception). There should really be some help material for all this but it's one item on a long list of things to do! I hope that all makes sense, it isn't meant to be a reprimand (you've got no idea how things work unless someone tells you, of course)! Feel free to ask questions. --Bobnotts talk 23:51, 15 February 2008 (PST)
Thank you for the clarification, Robert. All very helpful to know, as there are numerous places to find hymns in their several formats. I have a question regarding Shape Note hymns. I've seen they have their own category -- which is appropriate, but how should I list them on my Composer page? Currently the subheaders are Tunes, Harmonisations, and Hymns. Would I be correct in thinking this would be a third category, following the HYMNS and its subdivisions? If so, it would be a simple matter for me to study the code and create that heading.
With regard to hymn tunes (melody only) is LilyPond the only format used for this? Preferred format? I use Finale PrintMusic 2008, so it would be very easy to extract the tunes, though it would be a pdf. I had downloaded LP a long time ago, but for this traditionalist it seemed an awkward way to write music, so I abandoned it. For just a tune, however, I reckon I could wrap my brain around it.
I'm also curious about the shape note tunes already posted. While there are some engraving programs that will do the shapes, the posted items are all round notes. I can't help but wonder if this is for ease of reading by modern choirs that -- I've discovered -- are easily confused by noteheads that aren't round? Tweedfour 03:58, 24 February 2008 (PST)
Hi Thurlow. In most, if not all, instances, the Category:Shape Notes has simply been added at the end of the pages by simply typing [[Category:Shape Notes]] at the bottom of the relevant pages (although it could be typed anywhere on the page). It is certainly possible to add Shape Notes as a third Genre. It is true that the shape note hymns thus far contributed have been engraved with modern round notes (although Raf Ornes includes GIF of Northfield (Jeremiah Ingalls) in his edition, and Tim Henderson supplies facsimiles on Whitestown (Where nothing dwelt but beasts of prey) (Howd)). I have engraved some music with shape notes (using Finale) and the printed copy (from PostScript and PDF files) is excellent. You're probably right in guessing that round notes are viewed as easier for singers to read.
As for the LilyPond excerpts of hymn tunes and other melodies, such as Ave verum corpus (Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart), these are done via an inline LilyPond interpreter/compiler specifically designed for Wiki use. I don't know of any other engraving program which has such an add-on for Wiki, so we can only user the LilyPond plugin at present. I should point out that the plugin is rather limited, which is why it is only used to provide melodies. Using GIF or JPG images is very much less than optimal, because of resolution issues. At any rate, whenever the LilyPond plugin is used, be sure to add [[Category:LilyPond excerpts]] to the page. -- Chucktalk Giffen 00:26, 25 February 2008 (PST)
Chuck, which Finale product do you use? Does it support the four-shape scale? I have PrintMusic, which supports only seven-shape; otherwise, the program does absolutely everything I need/want it to.Tweedfour 09:58, 25 February 2008 (PST)
I used Finale 2005, 2006, 2007, 200 (I have retired Finale 2004 and might retire 2005 soon). Finale supports both 4-shape and 7-shape scales and even has variant triangles for the the leading tone. -- Chucktalk Giffen 00:26, 26 February 2008 (PST)
I presume this is the premium package? Do you know if the intermediate one (Allegro) supports the 4-shape scale? I can always upgrade, but of course don't wish to spend more than necessary.Tweedfour 08:08, 26 February 2008 (PST)
Yes, it's the full-fledged version. But I'm sure you qualify for the educator/music minister/religious discount (the "Academic/Theological edition") on the cost (350 instead of 600 bucks). -- Chucktalk Giffen 22:15, 26 February 2008 (PST)

Old Lancaster

Hi again, Thurlow. I'm curious as to the origin of the tune Old Lancaster ... you mention on The Lord will happiness divine (Thurlow Weed) that it is the Sacred Harp version of the tune. I've looked in all the Sacred Harp editions and indices that I can locate and cannot find the tune at all. Am I mistaken, or is this perhaps a tune of yours in the Sacred Harp tradition (since you give yourself as the composer, rather than the arranger)? Sacred Harp gives the text "The Lord will happiness Divine" to the tune Cambridge. -- Chucktalk Giffen 05:33, 25 February 2008 (PST)

Hi, Chuck. With regard to Old Lancaster and the OV version, the tune is indeed one of my own composition. It started out in a conventional hymn format, which I then reharmonised in shape note or Sacred Harp tradition. The OV is taken from the English west gallery tradition for the Old Version (OV) and New Version (NV) of a Psalm. In this case it also serves to prevent confusing the CPDL in thinking the tune is already there and cross-linking it. The words for the NV are "Lord who throughout these forty days." The OV words I did in fact take from Sacred Harp Cambridge #287 Denson. Also, for keeping track of things on the computer, hymn versions I consider NV (New Version) and the shape note form OV (Old Version).
Forest Rose, OTOH, was conceived as a shape note hymn; I went back and created a "congregational" version of the same tune. The tune names, incidentally, are all from my area, which is Lancaster, Ohio. We live about a half mile from Mt Pleasant, and Forest Rose is the name of an historical character, as well as the name of the local cemetery and the street that runs nearby. "Maple Street" -- another Lancaster street -- uses the words of Psalm 81 OV from Praise & Glory, the west gallery psalter.
I'm wondering, now, if perhaps I should indicate it as a "shape note" version rather than Scared Harp? Both are the same tune, just in different forms/arrangements. Incidentally, I also have Melody Assistant, which can create the shape notes, but apparently the .MUS codes are different between Finale and MA. I tired to export from Fin to MA, convert to shapes and send back, but no matter how I try it, the two programs simply will not speak to each other. (I use finale PrintMusic, which only support a seven-shape scale.)Tweedfour 09:49, 25 February 2008 (PST)
Hi again, Thurlow. I think "shape note version" rather than "Sacred Harp version" would be better, since otherwise "version" could carry the connotation that the hymn or tune itself came from Sacred Harp (as it did for me!). I'll go ahead and make the change. Your comments about Old Lancaster and Forest Rose bring to mind some of my musings when I composed the the hymn-anthem setting Sing, O sing, this blessed morn of my tune McShane, the more primitive settings coming after the original concept (as in Old Lancaster). -- Chucktalk Giffen 22:46, 25 February 2008 (PST)
Hi, Chuck. I agree "shape note version" looks better. I've made the change on the Forest Rose page as well, adding the Edition Notes line. The recent Ohio Convention of Sacred Harp was my first all-day singing, and was quite overwhelming. Tweedfour 08:04, 26 February 2008 (PST)

Missa Solemnis

Hi Thurlow! Thanks for contributing your new Mass. If you don't make any objection, I'll merge all parts (Kyrie and Gloria, for now) to the mass page, just as Rob has done with the Missa Brevis in February, ok? Regards Carlos 02:20, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Hi Carlos, That's fine. When I was uploading some things earlier in the week, I noticed a change in the code. The old codes use the SERVER bit in braces, whereas the new submissions do not. And is the merging something I would be able to do, or is that an administrator function? I've got a couple of other Missa Brevises in the works.
A telephone call interrupted my uploading of the Missa Solemnis, which I'm about to complete with the remaining movements. Also, I hope my adding the subcategories for the Shapenotes section is OK. The American Sacred Harp and English West Gallery styles are so distinctly different, I felt it might be helpful to users to have the distinction, since I have music in both styles. Tweedfour 03:37, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Carlos, I see what you did to merge the first three movements, and did same for last three. Thanks!Tweedfour 03:59, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Yes Thurlow, you got it! In your next mass submissions, create just the main Mass page and include each movement to it as you have done now. ;)
The SERVER code is just a workaround we've been using because of the temporary change in the URL address. We'll soon be implementing a new Add Work form that will presumably simplify this process.
Finally, I know very little of Shapenotes, perhaps Chuck or Rob can give you a feedback on this. Regards Carlos 07:13, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Score pages you have created

Hi Thurlow. I can barely keep track of all the new scores that you've added recently! Just a quick note to say that you seem to have missed off a couple of key templates on your recently added score pages. In this edit I added the templates and a couple of other standard fields which every score page should include. These are outputted from the add works form as standard so please don't remove them when you create the score page. Thanks! --Bobnotts talk 17:33, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi Robert, what can I say? I've been a busy composer lately! You probably saw that I also re-organised my page. I felt it was looking a bit cluttered and sprawling; I also decided it was time to alphabetise...
With regard to the templates, the only reason I cut them is because I had nothing to put in those fields and wished only to streamline the page. However, if they are required fields I'll be more than happy to leave them alone. The hymn meter part I usually copy and paste from another entry, then edit the meter. I apologise for any inconvenience I may have incurred -- mea culpa!
Incidentally, I take many of the tune names from towns and villages in Northamptonshire; My ancestors came from there (Stanwyck) to the New World in 1630. This is my way of acknowledging my fine English heritage.Tweedfour 22:58, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

"O Lamb of God"

Hi Thurlow. You just recently recreated this score page but it's already here so I deleted the duplicate. --Bobnotts talk 23:26, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi Bob, I happened to check my page today and noticed that the link on my page was in red. Clicking on it said it was deleted. I discovered Claude T had moved it; clicking on the link in his edit history showed the page intact, but it wasn't linked to the entry on my composer page. Thus puzzled, I attempted to put it back. Thanks for deleting duplicates. There are two pieces I deleted from my anthems, and flagged the still existing files for deletion. Who does the deletions? I notice there are several files from others similarly flagged. Thanks! Tweedfour 01:30, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
When Claude moved the page, he must have forgotten to correct the link on your composer page, that's why it was broken. If a work of yours has already been posted, it should not be posted again. I've deleted those score pages you requested and also (more importantly) the PDF and MIDI files hosted on the CPDL server. --Bobnotts talk 10:32, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, Bob. Out of curiosity, what was the reason for moving the page? Was it something I did incorrectly when posting it originally? If an oversight on my part, I would like to be aware so I can avoid it in future.Tweedfour 15:23, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
No problem.
The standard that we've adopted here is that that:
  • Works that use the first line or first few words of their text as their title should use standard capitalisation in the title (ie. first letter capitalised, subsequent proper nouns capitalised but not common nouns)
  • Works that have a title which is not the above should have the first letter of each word capitalised.
So, to take two of my editions as examples, O most merciful (Charles Wood) uses the first few words of the text as its title so it is capitalised accordingly, whereas with The Shower, Op. 71, No. 1 (Edward Elgar), the composer uses the title of the poem he sets as the title for the work. With your "O Lamb of God", I felt sure that in a previous version and in the text on the score page, the title was the first line of text: "O Lamb of God, still keep me". In actual fact, looking at the PDF reveals that it should be "O Lamb of God! Still keep me". Is the text on the score page wrong? --Bobnotts talk 17:56, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Oops! Looking at my text source, "O Lamb of God! still keep me" is the way it should be (exclamation, lowercase "s"). This proves that no matter how many times one proofreads something, there will be some niggling bit that somehow escapes, despite being patently obvious. Bollocks! Meantime, I've made note of the titling standards. I've also made the minor edit of the text on the hymn's page. I'll leave the PDF alone, as it seems more hassle than it's worth.Tweedfour 04:44, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Hyfrydol descant

Hi Thurlow. I removed the ScoreError template, because it turns out that Acrobat Reader at 63% resolution made the g/e split in the descant look like an f/d in m. 31. It never occurred to me to check it at a higher resolution. Sorry about that! – Chucktalk Giffen 22:41, 14 January 2012 (CST)

Thanks, Chuck. It's nice to know I'm not the only one that occasionally forgets to enlarge things and ends up squinting and seeing things!! At the same time, it's always nice to have a second set of eyes look at things, in case one has missed something despite reviewing 47 times. Tweedfour 12:34, 15 January 2012 (CST)

Two unrelated editions of Psalm 1 mixed up

On 19 June 2013 I created entry #29428 Psalm 1, with the tune "Weedon Bec" for a text by Isaac Watts. The PDF & MP3 files were uploaded and are still accessible in the archive. Today I uploaded another setting of Psalm, with a different tune, different text, all different data, but something went haywire after I placed the Composer Entry onto the page. When I then went to click on "Psalm 1" to paste in the "Works Entry" I saw my 2013 file was there already.

I added the new works info (CPDL #42618) and then deleted the info that was showing up for the #29428 entry. Now I have two listings for Psalm 1 in different locations showing the 42618 info.

Under my "Shape Notes" section should be Psalm 1 #29428, and under the "Christopher L Webber" section should be Psalm 1 #42618. How can I fix this to have the correct listings show up? It's further complicated by the fact than when I studied my upload history from 19 June 2013 it seems the incorrect PDF & MP3 files got associated with #29428 (Psalm 81 Wellington). How do I fix this? HELP!!! Tweedfour (talk) 22:48, 11 January 2017 (UTC)