User talk:CHGiffen
alias Charles H. Giffen or simply Chucktalk Giffen♫.
Feel free to leave questions and comments on this page about any contributions I've made to CPDL as a wiki editor/administrator.
- Comments and questions about scores I have edited for CPDL should be posted on my contributor talk page.
- Comments and questions about my compositions should be posted on my composer talk page.
You may also contact me (1) on the CPDL Bulletin Board, username: CHGiffen or (2) via e-mail: chg4k AT yahoo DOT com (with " AT " and " DOT " replaced by "@" and "." respectively).
Please use my talk page in the following manner:
- start new discussions by clicking on the "+" tab to the right of the "edit" at the top of this page or click here,
- continue discussions by clicking on the "edit" link directly right of the appropriate title below,
- and always sign your posts by typing four tildes afterwards (~~~~).
I will try to respond to your messages in a timely manner.
If you have left a message on this page, I will reply here unless you request that I reply on your talk page. Because of this, you may find it useful to temporarily watch this page.
If I have left a message for you on your talk page, please reply there. I will have your talk page on my watch list, and I watch the recent changes as well, so I'll see your message anyway. The reason for this is to keep the discussion together. Thank you for your co-operation!
Protecting flag images
Hi Chuck. Thanks for doing those, but you seem to have unprotected 3 then only reprotected the Latin flag. Anyway, would you mind looking at these again:
Cheers, --Bobnotts talk 07:01, 23 July 2007 (PDT)
- Sorry Rob, I forgot to select the protection level for those - but they are fixed now. Thanks! -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 08:19, 23 July 2007 (PDT)
Postscript
Chuck, forgot to mention in my previous post: are we likely to recover the previous 3 months' edits? Only, I'm afraid of editing pages then having my edits replaced by the recovered data. Any light that you could shed on this situation would be greatly appreciated as I'm in a bit of an editing limbo at the moment, not knowing whether to go for it or not! Thanks --Bobnotts talk 07:23, 23 July 2007 (PDT)
- Hi again. I'm not sure just how much editing we should do, either. I suspect that there will be some merging to do when and if Raf can get the lost 3 months restored. Already I see some people reposting scores that they had posted in the interim between the back-up date and the crash. I hope we can get some word from Raf on the best way to proceed and then post an announcement on the Main page and wherever else it would be relevant (like Add new scores). -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 08:22, 23 July 2007 (PDT)
Me too
I've got new scores to post, and like Bob have been holding off, waiting for some indication that the restore is done. Some guidence would be great !
- John Henry Fowler
Wiki markup help
Hi Chuck. Thanks for getting the recent scores list back up. I'm sure many more visitors find it useful than those who speak out. But to the matter in question... you may have noticed that I have been trying to write some help material/guidelines for editors which will hopefully encourage people to participate in CPDL's future development. The pages are listed here. I have a problem, however, with expressing some code to be used as an example on one of the pages, a wikification of JHF's text score submission guide. The code is of a work entry on a composer page. Even with the "nowiki" tag, the forced space code "& n b s p ;" displays as spaces rather than the code itself. Do you have any suggestions? BTW, if you have any suggestions as to how the help system should be reorganised (which I think is required), please do make them. --Bobnotts talk 04:28, 18 August 2007 (PDT)
- Hi Rob. I just discovered that the following font-change will work. You can use <tt>&</tt>nbsp;, as in
- ABC XYZ - the result of typing ABC<tt>&</tt>nbsp;XYZ
- I've made a Template:nbsp which you can use perhaps more easily:
- ABC XYZ - the result of typing ABC{{nbsp}}XYZ
- In case one wants literal code for other characters, I've created the Template:etc with one parameter, as in
- ABC XYZ - the result of typing ABC{{etc|nbsp;}}XYZ
- ABCáXYZ - the result of typing ABC{{etc|aacute;}}XYZ
- I hope these kludges work well enough for you (and others). -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 01:30, 19 August 2007 (PDT)
Missing link
Hello from Brian Russell. In making a few changes regarding removal of broken links at my website, I noticed that there is no link from the Composers listing to a page for Michael East. There are currently 19 pieces there, and I have plans for more. Could you fix this?
I want you to know I appreciate the labor you do for all of us at CPDL.
Brian
- Hi Brian. I've added various composer categories and other stuff usually on a composer's page to Michael East. The categories are necessary to get the composer listed on the various category pages.
- Thanks for you kind comment. I also appreciate your fine contributions to CDPL!
- BTW, the best way to sign and date a message is to type 4 tildes, thus: ~~~~ ... 3 tildes simply reproduces your username without the date.
- -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 01:03, 7 September 2007 (PDT)
Delete template
Hi Chuck. I've noticed that you've recently deleted the delete template, and quite right, given that there are now 2 new templates for the purpose. I wonder, though, would it be useful for users who are new to CPDL and simply want to type {{Delete}} for the attention of an admin, to have a template by that name? Perhaps if we had a help page which detailed the correct use of the delete and other templates then this wouldn't be an issue... --Bobnotts talk 10:21, 7 September 2007 (PDT)
- Hi Rob. I'd rather not reinstate the Delete template. But I have created a Delete page which simply redirects to Category:Delete where the information about the deletion process is located. Does this sound okay? -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 14:06, 11 September 2007 (PDT)
- Fair enough. The category explanation looks good to me. It may be worth adding a new help topic "How can I delete a page?" in case people look at the help first rather than typing "Delete" into the search box. Also, you're missing the close bracket at the end of the penultimate bullet but I can't change it because the page is protected. --Bobnotts talk 04:23, 13 September 2007 (PDT)
Legend template
Hi Chuck - just a quickie. Your alteration to the legend template seems to have caused an extra line to appear below it - see here and here for examples. Can we get rid of the empty line inputted at the end of the template? --Bobnotts talk 06:28, 19 September 2007 (PDT)
- Hi Rob - I just tried restoring the Template to its original form (before categorization) and there was no difference in the results with the two works you cite above. Then, in the de Lange work (the second one), I removed a blank line between the Legend template and the edition listing, and the empty line disappeared. The same happens with the categorization of the template left in, so it is not a result of categorizing the template (there are no blank lines there). You can click on the two examples to see the difference. -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 23:33, 19 September 2007 (PDT)
- Wait! I discovered what you meant on other pages while I was adding some a cappella templates. The funny thing is, that before I edited the page the extra line was there, but after the edit the extra line was gone (even then there is a blank line between the Legend template and the first edition entry). It seems to be yet another one of those phenomena that pop-up and then disappear after a subsequent edit. -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 01:16, 20 September 2007 (PDT)
- Hmm this is strange... there also seems to be a problem on Domine ad adiuvandum (Claudio Monteverdi)... the ScoreInfo template seems to force a line break too... --Bobnotts talk 03:32, 20 September 2007 (PDT)
Messed up move pages
Hi Chuck,
I messed up a bit yesterday. I moved the page Nachtwache - No. 2 (Op. 104, No. 2) (Johannes Brahms) wrongly to Nachtwache I, Op. 104, No. 1 (Johannes Brahms), so I moved it back. I already marked the page Nachtwache I, Op. 104, No. 1 (Johannes Brahms) for deletion, and now i also marked the page Nachtwache - No. 2 (Op. 104, No. 2) (Johannes Brahms) for deletion. Please delete both pages if possible, so I can move Nachtwache I (Op. 104, No. 1) (Johannes Brahms) to Nachtwache I, Op. 104, No. 1 (Johannes Brahms). Sorry for any incovenience. Thanks, --Arie 20:37, 21 September 2007 (PDT)
- Hi Arie. Don't worry, it happens to all of us! I just deleted the two pages you requested. Cheers! -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 23:22, 21 September 2007 (PDT)
Just a couple of things...
Hi Chuck. Talk:Ave Maria is protected. Could you delete the page and remove protection? As far as I know, talk pages shouldn't be protected. Also the Main Page talk is protected. Should that be unprotected as well? Most wiki sites have a message on the Main Page talk to point out that it is for discussion about the Main Page and not about general things on the site and I was going to add such a message... perhaps move the clutter not related to the Main Page as well? Also, I recently created Category:Text pages. Do you think it will be useful? If so, feel free to add any text pages that I miss! Cheers --Bobnotts talk 02:28, 22 September 2007 (PDT)
- I just unprotected it. It was originally protected by Raf (I think) when it was a spam target ages ago. -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 04:20, 22 September 2007 (PDT)
Sorry for the redirects which stepped on Harris dis. page
The redirects I did were to make active links in:
http://www.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/The_New_Church_Anthem_Book
so if you want to check these out. I could have made the name here match the full composer names, but I did it the other way round, thinking that it couldn't hurt...
Rob seems to feel that (unhosted) composer pages should have no catagories, but in the absence of standards I've been adding them.
(After all everybody looks, requests, and expects to see John Rutter, etc. why shouldn't they appear even if we can't distribute their music we can point them to the publisher pages.) Johnhenryfowler
Got your reply - I'll be sure to check and make disambiguation pages as needed where needed. (ie: Phillip Moore (b 1943) vrs Thomas Moore (b. 1779 d. 1852) here a disambiguation page would be needed )
Has everybody abandoned the forums ? All the new posts seem to be from spammers... I was hoping to hammer out a standards document.
I know I'm a bit behind but...
the alterations that you've made to ChoralWiki:Music Subcategories look great! Also, I entirely agree with the merging of chant and medieval music - a very necessary job you're doing, Chuck. Now... accompaniment cats... this might take a lot of work! --Bobnotts talk 00:18, 4 October 2007 (PDT)
- Hi Rob. Yeah, I put in accompaniment cats, for at least it gives a place to subcategorise A cappella. *grin* Thanks for you kind words! -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 01:13, 4 October 2007 (PDT)
Ooops...
Thank you for adding my signature where I forgot ;) --Choralia 04:11, 10 October 2007 (PDT)
How are we doing those hymns now...?
I've just looked at What Child is This? (arr. John Stainer) and What Child is This (Traditional) (edit 12-15-07: pages have now been merged, see What Child is This? (Traditional) end of edit) Now obviously they need to be merged but what should the page title be? The "hymn" tune is Greensleeves; the composer unknown or "Traditional". One edition is arranged by John Stainer. Where does he fit in?
- What Child is This (Traditional)
- What Child is This (Greensleeves)
- What Child is This (Traditional, t. Greensleeves)
I know you've done a lot of work on hymns on CPDL and there are a few pages designed in a similar way to composer pages, "hymn tune pages" but many tunes don't have a page. Should there be a page called Greensleeves (Traditional) or just Greensleeves from which settings of the tune are listed? It would help users to be able to see if there are any other settings of the tune to different words... Some of this may be revisiting old stuff which has already been discussed and agreed and if this is the case, I apologise. Looking forward to your reply (here!) --Bobnotts talk 19:44, 11 October 2007 (PDT)
- Hi Rob. Greensleeves/What child is this is a sticky wicket, at best. The harmonization/arrangement in "What Child is This (Traditional)" is identical with the one published by Sir John Stainer in 1871 - the arrangement in "What Child is This? (arr. John Stainer)" is actually altered (at the end of the first phrase). In either case, the melody (tune) "Greensleeves" has a long history, beginning with its first mention in 1580 as a "new northern dittye of the Lady Greene Sleeves." It is mentioned in Shakespeare's "Merry Wives of Windsor." It has erroneously been attributed to King Henry VIII.
- That said, I am of the opinion that there should be a "Greensleeves" tune page (without ascription of tune when traditional or unknown), since there are works (eg. "Alas my love...") that share this tune with "What Child...". Tune pages list works at CPDL that employ the tune in question. See Es flog ein kleins Waldvögelein, Old hundredth, Rasmus, Salzburg for examples of tune pages. As for "What Child..." (using Greensleeves - there are other tunes not represented at CPDL, as yet), they should be merged. I would use the title "What child is this (John Stainer)" - which is what we have done in the past with arrangements or harmonizations of a melody. I hope this makes sense!! -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 23:45, 11 October 2007 (PDT)
Thanks for your help with the Hymns I'm adding.
Hi Chuck,
Thanks for finding some errors in the Cyber Hymnal hymns I'm entering. I noticed the NWC version has 2 or 3 note errors in each hymn. Usually these are cases of missing rests where a voice is not present, or a missing dot, etc. When I catch them the Sibelius4 edition has these errors cleaned up. I've cleaned up the F that should be a G in measure 1 of Ralph Vaughan Williams hymn tune "The call". (Hymn name "Come, my Way, my Truth, my Life".) Johnhenryfowler 11:48, 20 November 2007 (PST)
- Glad to help, John, especially since hymns at CPDL are a pet project of mine. -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 07:09, 21 November 2007 (PST)
Lilypond extension
Chuck, why does the LilyPond code require the curly brackets { } in the code? It seemed to work fine without them for me. I'm still a newbie at LilyPond I'm afraid! BTW, would you mind looking at Slane which I've managed to screw up, somehow? Cheers --Bobnotts talk 15:40, 26 November 2007 (PST)
- Actually, apparently the wiki LilyPond extension doesn't require braces (ordinarily LilyPond does require them), and I had put them in hoping to be able to tweak formatting a bit (but so far to no avail). There are two things I wish we could do: (1) reduce the line length and/or size a bit to somthing approximating that of the original Old hundredth (the current line length is too long to fit in my pretty standard non-maximized browser window); and (2) figure out some way to hide the time signature (for subsequent lines of a tune). I'll have a look at Slane. LilyPond can be exasperating because of the way it reports compiler/interpreter errors!! Cheers -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 06:14, 27 November 2007 (PST)
Errors in CPDL #12815 (Hark the herald)
Hi Chuck. There are a couple of mistakes in your edition. I've posted them on the talk page but I thought I'd let you know here as well. --Bobnotts talk 00:09, 13 December 2007 (PST)
- Thanks Rob. I'll check the text carefully for more errors and post a replacement edition shortly. -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 00:13, 13 December 2007 (PST)
Recent edit to Juan Gutierrez de Padilla's composer page
Hi Chuck. In a recent edit to Juan Gutierrez de Padilla's composer page, you deleted some names suggested as the composer's aliases. Was that intentional? --Bobnotts talk 07:08, 2 January 2008 (PST)
- Hi Rob, the alternatives were: Padilla, Juan Guti�rrez de; de Padilla, Juan Gutierrez (and the boxed letter should be é). Under Bibliography, a user had pointed out that the name should be alphabetized (sorted) under G, as Gutiérrez de Padilla, Juan. This is essentially correct; actually, the sort should be under "Gutierrez de Padilla, Juan" to get the "é" alphabetized with "e" (see the Wikipedia article). Note the composer is often simply referred to (at least in non-Spanish speaking circles) as "Padilla" (or sometimes "de Padilla") ... it's somewhat analgous to referring to Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina as "Palestrina". I meant to go back and move the page to Juan Gutiérrez de Padilla so as to correct the spelling and also to address the Aliases issue, but I was involved with other work at the time. Sorry. I note the following alphabetizations of other Spanish composers: Ginés Pérez de la Parra (currently alphabetized under "Pérez de la Parra, Ginés"), Tomás de Torrejón y Velasco (under "Torrejón y Velasco, Tomás de"), Pedro Aranaz y Vides (under "Aranaz y Vides, Pedro"), Pau Casals i Defilló (under "Casals i Defilló, Pau" - a.k.a. Pablo Casals), Juan Blas de Castro (under "Blas de Castro, Juan"). -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 23:56, 2 January 2008 (PST)
- Thanks for that, Chuck. I don't know nearly as much about him as you so I'll leave you to finish what you started! It just seemed that you forgot to come back to the page. Cheers --Bobnotts talk 04:27, 3 January 2008 (PST)
Translated pages
Hi Chuck. I've just been adding the French translation of the score submission guide to the appropriate places and saw Template:Dutch pages and Template:Italian pages. Then I thought "Surely Chuck meant to have them as categories rather than templates?" so I created cats (Category:Dutch pages, Category:Italian pages and Category:French pages) for the languages without realising that you may have wanted an editable list so that the title of the page could be in English and the transla language. Duh! (I hadn't deleted your pages at this stage - they are still here: Template:Italian pages and Template:Dutch pages). If this is what you had in mind, it's probably a good idea, unless the amount of translated pages gets so big that it's unwieldy to have an manually added page... so we could include the English and translated title in the title of the page so that it displays correctly in a category... probably too complicated for what we need. Anyway, if we go back to a manually edited list, perhaps it should be in the ChoralWiki namespace, not Template? Sorry for messing things up. --Bobnotts talk 20:59, 7 January 2008 (PST)
- Hi Rob. "Surely Chuck meant ... " wasn't my thought, but wanting an editable list as you describe was exactly what I had in mind. I think it will be a long, long time before such list pages become too unwieldy, and I don't really like the idea of having a double (two language) title for such pages. However, one might, say in the case of the Dutch translation, put a redirect to Help:Score submission guide (Dutch) on a page titled Handleiding bij het publiceren van partituren - or vice versa - and on the page with the title in Dutch (even if it is a redirect) one can put Category:Dutch pages, which will cause the category page to give titles in Dutch. -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 01:10, 8 January 2008 (PST)
- That looks good, should we now delete Category:Dutch pages, Category:French pages and Category:Italian pages? It seems pointless to have a duplicate list. Sorry again for the mix up. --Bobnotts talk 22:05, 9 January 2008 (PST)
- Hi Rob and thanks. No, if you look at, say, Category:Dutch pages, it now simply gives the Dutch language title of the page. This is because I put [[Category:Dutch pages]] on the redirect page Handleiding bij het publiceren van partituren. I decided to have the redirects go from the target language title to the English titled page, instead of the other way around ... mostly because I think it is easier for most of us to keep track of translated pages if the titles are in the form "<title> (<language>". Also, I have the flags point to the (foreign titled) redirect pages, while the name of the foreign language links are to the ChoralWiki list pages. At first this was an oversight, but in hindsight I see it gives a user both alternatives. -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 23:46, 9 January 2008 (PST)
Language cats
Hi Chuck,
I noticed you've been implementing language categories. Much as I agree with the concept, it is likely to bring out a problem in the cats 'Russian' and 'Church Slavonic', since many editors seem to be unaware of the difference between them and assign the wrong cat to their scores. Any thoughts on this? Cordially, joachim 21:54, 28 January 2008 (PST)
- Hi Joachim. I was already well aware of there being confusion on the part of some contributing editors of the difference between Russian and Church Slavonic, and in my hurry to get things up to speed with the Works in <langauge> categories, I didn't check the Arensky Otche nash - indeed it is in Church Slavonic - I had simply copied Fowler's Russian language tag over into the new Language template. Thanks for correcting the category. I think we'll just have to check the various Russian and Church Slavonic entries and change those which are wrong. -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 01:09, 29 January 2008 (PST)
Italian ?
The recently posted new work I posted for Sabine Cassola: O dulce nomen Jesu a 4 (Orazio Tarditi)
I was going to reverse your edit - but then I thought I'd check...
The work that I posted for Sabine Cassola - your edit that it be categorized as a "Work in English" ? Shouldn't it be "Work in Latin"
I also wasn't sure of my designation as SSAB - (also the other 3 works I posted for her.) Johnhenryfowler 04:48, 7 February 2008 (PST)